Contributory Parent Visas - URGENT

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi All

 

Alan Collett of Go Matilda has said this morning that the grant of further Contributory Parent and Parent have been suspended until further notice.

 

Alan's news article about this is here:

 

Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

 

The current quota for visas is 1,000 a year for non-contributory Parents and 3,500 visas for Contributory Parents. It seems that DIAC have granted as many as they are permitted to grant for the 2007/8 Program Year, which ends on 30th June 2008.

 

I am shocked, to be honest. I was expecting them to shut the door but thought it maybe wouldn't have to happen till perhaps April or May. They are only half way through the Program Year at the moment, after all.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Alan Collett]

Gill,

 

To confirm: the clear inference from the conversation I had with the POPC this afternoon was that the 2007/08 program is close to being filled - the emphasis has been on assessing applications within a halfway reasonable timeframe, but there have been so many applications for CP visas lodged in the last 12 months the program has been substantially consumed in the first 6 months.

 

This rather reflects my concerns you may recall I expressed a few months ago following my telephone conversation with a chap in DIAC Central Office when I was advised the number of primary applications on hand was the equivalent to 2 years of CP visa grants based on existing program totals.

 

Given this the reasonable question to ask of the Department is why they didn't see this issue coming. My hunch is the change of Government may have something to do with it ...

 

Best regards.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Alan

 

Thanks for the additional information.

 

I can understand the idea that they may invoke the formal Queue process and so on, but what about where the CO is already in touch and final processing has begun? People may have had meds done - on request - and so forth.

 

Do they "earmark" a couple of visas out of the pile at the time when they ask a couple to get the Meds and PCCs done, so that anyone who is at an advanced stage with the final processing should still get a visa pretty quickly, do you know?

 

Hopefully Labor will stick to its historical promises and increase the quota for Parents.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest june coates]

hi all,

i am in wa at present,on 676 visa,awaiting cp.visa. i have been allocated co,and police checks done.i go for medicals this week.just wondereing what chance i have now of having my cp visa granted before my visa elapses in november,this year.

june

[Guest JoanneHattersley]

hi all,

i am in wa at present,on 676 visa,awaiting cp.visa. i have been allocated co,and police checks done.i go for medicals this week.just wondereing what chance i have now of having my cp visa granted before my visa elapses in november,this year.

june

 

:cool:

June,

 

Hope meds go well. My parents (Mr and Mrs CazBeckham) have got CO, had meds and PCC done. All my AOS stuff has all been done and sorted. I have the bond paid and cleared! All they were waiting for was clearance of meds and paying the last monies! Ouch huh!

 

Saying that tho, I am glad that this country (Oz) does look at numbers of immigrants and not let as many as it likes in. This is actually one of the reasons why we liked it. People couldnt understand how we have to wait 9 months to the VISA and why we couldnt just go! Im sure some people though that we jumped on the plane and just went!

 

Im sure that you will be fine June! Keep an eye out on here for Alan Colletts updates! Im sure things will get moving soom enough!

 

Mum, Dad....we WILL see you soon! Like I said, my banner at the airport now will read "TOOK YA LONG ENOUGH DIDNT IT?" Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

Best wishes to everyone waiting and to everyone here........aint life great eh!

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi June

 

Please see this British Expats thread, where I first read about the CPV situation this morning. There has been a fair amount of discussion since Alan's original post:

 

Contributory Parent Visa Processing Halted : British Expat Discussion Forum

 

Just a few weeks back when I read that you had reached Perth only to hear from your CO a couple of days later, I thought, "Uh oh. I've pushed the poor lady into the hassle of a long winded application for a 12 month stay when a 3 month ETA would probably have sufficed."

 

Now - happily - it looks as if you took the right gamble in the first place.

 

Don't worry if the processing becomes protracted. If your 676 visa expires before they are ready to grant your CPV, you will simply need to make a very short trip to Bali or Singapore where they will grant you another 12 months on another 676 visa very swiftly.

 

Savta and her husband (PIO membrs) did this during 2007. The first 12 month stay was due to expire and they were in Melbourne. About a month before it expired they went to Auckland for a few days and were given another 12 month 676 visa whilst there. Since then their CP 143 visa has been granted, which meant a second trip to Auckland, but the up-side is that they were with their close family for all except just a few days of the overall processing time.

 

My mother came back to the UK when her own 676 visa expired. She arrived here exactly 5 weeks before her CP visa was granted and then returned to Perth 3 weeks after the grant. Both of the COs involved (in Perth & London respectively) assured me that they would not require Mum to go anyurther than Singapore etc etc, and were most anxious to avoid putting such an old lady through two long-haul flights when doing that was avoidable.

 

However, Mum still has several rellies in the UK so it suited us better for herto come home for a while - we ended up reassuring the COs that Mum's returning to the UK was really not a big deal from hers or her family's point of view and that we all preferred it to the Singapore or Bali options!!

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Johatts

 

If you can, I would suggest contacting Sleeping Beauty over on British Expats. It sounds like her Parents are at the same stage as your own. They are not using an Agent so I imagine that SB will be on to the POPC as soon as they wake up on Tuesday! She and Alan Collett between them seem to be spearheading the taskof discovering the details of all this.

 

Sent you a PM.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest claire&fred]

Hi Gill

 

Sorry to sound thick. What exactly does this mean? My mum applied for CPV back in May 07. She does not have CO yet and has not been asked to do medicals or PCC as yet.

 

Claire

[Guest chrisf]

Hi Gill have had my visa lodged since second of october , Is everything on stop till july now, or do they still work on the processing but wait till after july to rubber stamp the visa

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Claire, Hi Chrisf

 

My impression is that so far, the POPC have dropped a bombshell on Alan Collett pretty much out of the blue and that, as yet, there has been no other announcement from DIAC.

 

Last June, Alan discovered that DIAC have received about double the number of CP applications as they have visas available for. They stopped granting visas last June but only for a month or so.

 

I heard at the time that there had been discussions within DIAC about possibly implementing the formal Queueing process, which has not been used with CP visas hitherto. However, I heard no more about the possibility so I assumed that the idea had been shelved.

 

As of today, George Lombard on British Expats seems to think that the possibility of the full, formal Queueing process is now very much on the cards but I have no idea whether they would suddenly impose it on existing applicants or whether they would say that it would only apply to applications received on or after dd/mm/yyyy.

 

If they do decide to implement the formal Queue business, then it will work in the same way as the process works for non-contributory Parents.

 

With non-contributory Parents, the drill is as follows:

 

1. When the application is received it is checked for basic validity.

 

2. If the application is valid, then the Parent is asked to produce Police Checks and Meds.

 

3. If both of those are OK, the Parent is given a formal Queue Date** and is added to the official Queue.

 

4. By the time the Parent reaches the head of the Queue, it is odds-on that the PCCs and Meds will have expired since they only have a shelf life of a year. So the Parent is asked to produce a second lot of PCCs and Meds.

 

5. If these new checks are also OK then the Parent is asked to organise the Assurance of Support, pay the 2nd Instalment and the visa is then granted.

 

** Queue Date: The significance of the Queue Date is that it enables Parents to use the Queue Calculator tool to see how many applicants are ahread of themselves in the Queue. From that, they can divide by the number of visas available each year and calculate their likely remaining time in the Queue.

 

This electronic tool appears to work for the Contributory Parent categories but that is misleading. It has never been given any live data for the CP categories. It is running on test data only, put there to prove that the software works OK.

 

With the non-contributory Parent categories, the Queue calculator works for real and is said to be reliable. Please see here:

 

Parent Visa Processing Priorities - Family - Visas & Immigration

 

JAJ on British Expats fiddled with the Queue Calculator a few weeks back and got it to work using a Queue Date of 27 November 2007. Seemingly at least one Parent applicant was added to the Queue on that date.

 

I've just tried it, using JAJ's date. The result is roughly 13,130 applicants who are ahead of the Parent who was added to the Queue on 27/11/2007. With 1,000 places available each year, the 27/11/2007 non-contributory Parent is in for a very long wait.

 

It wouldn't be anything like that bad for Contributory Parents, however. There are 3.5 times as many visas available each year, and at the moment demand is only about double the available supply.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest Scardycat]

Hi Gill,

having just read all the available info on this, am feeling so despondent, it just seems to be getting worse, and it is so frustrating that I can't even apply yet, I just dread to think how long it's going to take by the time I can apply.

 

I would like to be a PR before I get too old to enjoy it!!!!!!

 

I WANT TO SCREEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAM.

 

Sorry but am just feeling like am sitting here with my hands tied behind my back, so I need to let off steam. I expect there's a lot more feeling like this or worse. Hope they soon sort something out for those who have their applications in.

 

Regards Cat

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Gill,

having just read all the available info on this, am feeling so despondent, it just seems to be getting worse, and it is so frustrating that I can't even apply yet, I just dread to think how long it's going to take by the time I can apply.

 

I would like to be a PR before I get too old to enjoy it!!!!!!

 

I WANT TO SCREEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAM.

 

Sorry but am just feeling like am sitting here with my hands tied behind my back, so I need to let off steam. I expect there's a lot more feeling like this or worse. Hope they soon sort something out for those who have their applications in.

 

Regards Cat

 

Aww, Kitten

 

I know just how you feel.

 

There is a ray of hope, maybe. Apparently Chris Evans, the new Minister for Immi, migrated to Oz from the UK. He was born in Cuckfield in East Sussex, or lived there or something. He might be more sympathetic to would be migrants than his predessors in the job.

 

I suspect that DIAC in London are likely to become prety sympathetic towards British Parents who are genuinely not having them on and who would like nthing better than to be able to get a CP visa instead of endless long-stay tourist visas.

 

We had to teach Mum to harden her heart towards our long term Family Home. She still owns it, but she is ow at least 80% persuaded to see the place as a good-yielding investment rather than as her "home" and she is no longer sentimental about leaving it more or less permanently let.

 

There is no point in selling it at the minute - the market is as flat as a pancaske, the exchange rate is worse and so on.

 

A LOT of Parents tell me, "I couldn't bear the thought of letting our house out to strangers whilst we are in Oz!"

 

Bit by bit, their children and I chip away at them. "Would you only SELL it to somebody you know? Let the ruddy place. The insurers hate empty houses and it is much better for the fabric to keep the place heated in winter... especially at A.N. Other's expense." Bit by bit, we have to get their fingers off their sentiments and reaching graspingly towards their new lives in Australia instead.

 

Personally, I'd have been very doubtful about letting Mum take a chance on selling up before getting her CP visa, but I think that finding a good Lettings Agent and leaving him to get on with it is a very do-able compromise.

 

Nite nite.

 

Big Hugz

 

Gill

xx

[Guest InPerth]

Hi All,

 

Any update on the visa grant issue? I am a sponsor currently in Perth and parents have been cleared of medicals but now this thing about not getting visas because of quota restrictions is quite disappointing. Has anyone got any further news on this? I have called POPC and have been told no decision on a visa grant has taken place yet. Just came across this forum and decided to join and ask around.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Helo In Perth

 

Welcome to Poms in Oz.

 

The only real news is that by the end of November 2007 DIAC had granted and/or allocated all 3,500 visas for the 2007/8 Program Year. Therefore in the first week of December they decided to continue to process CP applications normally up tothe point where they are happy with stuff like the Balance of Family and the meds and police checks have been processed and cleared.

 

They have stopped processing the applications beyond this point because they don't want to ask applicants to deposit their Bonds and/or pay the 2nd Instalment in circumstances where DIAC cannot give them visas soon afterthe financial bits are complete.

 

Seemingly they have explained the situation to the new Minister for Immi and are waiting to hear whether he will increase the annual quota of CP visas and if so when any increase will take effect.

 

Even if nothing else happens between now and 30the June 2008, another 3,500 CP visas will definitely become available on 1st July 2008.

 

What is the lodgement date of your Parents' application? March 2007 or so? My guess would be that things may happen quite quickly for them once July 2008 is here, even if nothing happens before that.

 

The pain, of course, is the way the time-clock starts ticking once the Meds have been done. Parents like Caz Beckham are not going to have much time in which to sell their houses et in the UK and for some parents (Caz is one of them) having a business to run in the UK means they cannot easily drop everything in order to make a prompt validation visit to Oz once the visas are eventually granted.

 

I do know for sure from my my mother's application that the COs can extend the validity of the meds for 3 months on their own discretion. I would imagine that all applicants who are involved in this delay will be offered the extra 3 months automatically.

 

Mum's CO said that she could try to get the Initial Entry Date extended for up to 6 months if we wanted, but that she would need permission from the Medical Officer of the Commonwealth before she could grant a 6 month extension.

 

As it happened, we did not need to ask for an extension of time but the possibility is definitely available should it be needed. As I say, I would expect them to offer all CP applicants the extra 3 months automatically. However, I would recommend that you check this point with your Parents' Co as soon as s/he asks you to start the ball rolling with the AoS process if your Parents have applied for the CP 143, or when s/he requests the 2nd Instalment if your Parents are using the Temp CP 173 visa to start with. It is almost impossible to get the Initial Entry Date altered once the visa has been granted, so I would say it is essential to sort this bit out before the CO grants the visa.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest cazbeckham]

Hi Gill

 

You state as follows in your post here

 

They have stopped processing the applications beyond this point because they don't want to ask applicants to deposit their Bonds and/or pay the 2nd Instalment in circumstances where DIAC cannot give them visas soon afterthe financial bits are complete.

 

 

Well it didnt work like that for us as they asked us to deposit our bond which was done on 17th December so not sure what happened there then. Were they not aware of the situation when they asked us to deposit our bond in mid December?????

 

 

So frustrating and as you say with our business we do not want to go to Australia JUST to validate the visa, it will have to be a once for good visit.

 

Best wishes

 

Caz

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Caz

 

They have stopped processing the applications beyond this point because they don't want to ask applicants to deposit their Bonds and/or pay the 2nd Instalment in circumstances where DIAC cannot give them visas soon afterthe financial bits are complete.

 

 

 

I know it didn't work like this for you. The reason is because they didn't make the decision till the first week in December. Once the decision was made, it was implemented with immediate effect.

 

Some people, including you, were "caught on the cusp" as it were because your COs had asked you to arrange teh AoS before the COs were toldto stop asking for that. Once Centrelink are involved, there is no machinery for halting their part of the process. Like DIAC, Centrelink are bound by Charter Service Standards which require them to plod through their own process within certain time-limits and so on.

 

Apparently at the time when they ask an applicant for the 2nd Instalment, at this point they reserve visas for them at the same time. One of the Agents (not Alan) mentioned that a client os his was asked forthe 2nd Instalment sometime in November. (From memory, I think they gave us about 90 days to come up with the money.)

 

The Agent said that when the news broike about CP visa grants being suspended, he told his client to hang on to the 2nd Instalment whilst he contacted the POPC to find out whether a visa was available for her. He was told yes, a visa had been reserved at the time when the 2nd Inslalment was requested, so I presume that the agent and his client have now paid the POPC and that the visa has either been granted or soon will be.

 

I reckon that this is at least part of the reason why people have been getting conflicting responses from the POPC. My impression is that none of the foot-soldiers actually get told very much and the more junior they are, the less they are told, probably. Plus some of them may not be bright enough to be able to understand change terribly well. Also, somebody goes on leave for 2 weeks at the wrong moment. By the time they come back, everybody has digested the news and nobody thinks to inform the person who has been away.

 

I remember when Mum's application was in the pipeline and there was a sudden silence at one point, so I rang the POPC. I know just how inefficient the British Civil Service is, so I cringed whe the POPC lady told me proudly that the Australian Civil Service is modelled on the British one! Inwardly I thought, "Gawd 'elp us all if this woman is right!" Regrettably, I suspect that she was right!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest cazbeckham]

Thanks for your reply Gill

 

Have a great weekend, we are off to friends for dinner party tomorrow (these have been going on for 35 years so will probably be our last with them).

 

Caz

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Thanks for your reply Gill

 

Have a great weekend, we are off to friends for dinner party tomorrow (these have been going on for 35 years so will probably be our last with them).

 

Caz

 

Make the most of it, Caz. Have a great time. The weather down here is bright and warm today. I might go for a sail tomoz if the weather stays nice.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Alan Collett]

My hunch is that we won't see a decision by the Minister in the next few weeks, and that the validity of medicals and police clearance certificates will be extended for those who have already submitted them - unless there is a Health Undertaking ... but please don't hold me to it!

 

Best regards.

[Guest Where'sTheWind]

Hi there

 

First post here, been keeping an eye on this forum and a couple of others for a while now.

 

My parents are applying for a CP 143 (acknowledged 02/AUG/2007), so the current hold up in the issuing of this visa is of great concern.

 

I'd really just like to say thanks to everyone chipping in with anything they've heard, especially Alan and Gill - it's always good to get even a snippit of what might be happening behind the scenes, and the time taken to post detailed analyses of the situation is very much appreciated.

 

I'm waiting with baited breath to see if the quota gets raised, as I reckon my folks would miss out on the July 2008 allocation, making it presumably July 2009. They still don't know about this 'problem' yet (we're all hoping to get them out here by Chrsitmas) and I don't want to worry them unless I find out for sure that the quota is not going to be extended. Jeez, I'm not looking forward to THAT conversation if I have to have it.

 

 

Anyway, just to say hi and keep those updates coming !

 

 

fingers crossed !

[Alan Collett]

Hello there!

 

If there are no changes to the number of permitted CP visas granted annually I think it likely it will become more important than before to keep a close watch on CP visa applications that were lodged a month or two earlier than yours (or should I say your parents') to gauge when medicals and police clearance certificates are likely to be requested.

 

If you can pre-empt that request you may be able to jump up the pecking order - and in the grand scheme of things that might mean visa grant in an earlier program year.

 

Maybe have a look at this website too: timeline - though I'm not sure how many CP visa applicants register their details on this site.

 

Best regards.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi WTW

 

Welcome to Poms in Oz.

 

I know exactly what you mean about not wanting to discuss the possible scenarios with your Parents until we know something definite about the quota one way or the other. I think lots of other people have made the same decision.

 

Readng between the lines of the 2006/7 DIAC report, I suspect that what has happened is a head-on clash between Policy - which advises the Minister about Charter Service Standards and quotas - and Operations, which deals with the actual visa processing. The CSS for CP visas requires DIAC to complete the start-to-finish processing of CP applications in something like no more than 9-12 months.

 

Compliance with the target means running out of visas less than halfway through the Program Year and with things as they are at the moment, the 2008/9 quota of CP visas will probably be used up by the end of the first Quarter of 2008/9 unless the quota is increased.

 

Back in May/June 2007 Alan Collett spoke with somebody in the Policy Area in Canberra about the quota for CP visas. The guy told Alan that they had two years' worth of CP applications in hand but only one year's worth of visas to grant. Not unreasonably, Alan asked whether plans were afoot to increase the quota of CP visas. He was told absolutely not because the Australian Government Actuary has declared that CPV holders actually only contribute about 12.5% of their likely total rest-of-life costs for medical and community care via the Contribution (the 2nd Instalment) leaving the Australian taxpayer to carry the other 87.5% of the bill. Alan's informant apparently saw no chance of the Howard Government becoming inclined to increase the burden on the Australian tax-payer via making more CP visas available.

 

Reading Alan's account of the conversation, I laid Google by the heels. Please see the link below. (Whilst we are all cooling our heels in frustration we might as well get genned up on how this thing works, it seems to me!)

 

Publications — Australian Government Actuary

 

Start with the document entitled "AGA Report for DIMIA - Introduction of a New Category of Parent Migration" and you can then carry your investigation forward from there. I found it particularly enlightening in terms of discovering how they calculate the annual increase in the 2nd Instalment

 

Alan's informant in Canberra was spot-on in terms of providing an accurate summary of the AGA's findings.

 

I know zilch about Australian Politics. However I am passionate about Parent migration to Oz as a "Cause" (because my family had a battle with the philosophy of the Balance of Family test for several years, though another family eventually took up the legal cudgels which led to a CP visa for my own mother as well.)

 

David Bitel is a well-known Immigration Litigation solicitor in Sydney. Some years ago, he produced an interesting critique of the then-new Contributory Parent Scheme, and the link is below. Strip out his own politicking (because he is known to advise the Governments of the various countries in and around the Indian sub-continent about the relationship between Australian Immigration policies & practice and their own respective Citizens and he is passionate about his own particular "Cause.")

 

Focus instead on the historical statistics that he provides, I suggest:

 

http://www.parishpatience.com.au/immigration/parent.pdf

 

Since the Labor Opposition which had been so liberal and generous towards Parents in the years before 1996 (and which fought the introduction of the Contributory Parent Scheme tooth & nail) is now the Government of the day again, I would like to be able to take the new Minister for Immi out for a quiet lunch with David Bitel at my side!

 

After all, Labor are now the Government of the day. Have they been having the Electorate on about their seeming devotion to Parents, I wonder? Or are they going to put their money where their mouth is and increase the quotas for both Contributory and non-Contributory Parents? If the latter, are they going to increase the numbers by enough to actually DO something meaningful towards easing the problem or are they going to chuck a sop to Cerberus which is so tiny and token only that it will have no impact whatsoever on his hunger or on his ire?

 

Are they going to accept that the social issues are more important than the strictly economic issues alone, in short?

 

Whether this allegedly divisive two-tier scheme is socially desirable is a separate issue which I do not propose to debate. The fact is that the Contributory Parent Scheme has been a roaring commercial success for the Australian Government. Doubling the price probably wouldn't put a massive dent in demand in the long run, I reckon.

 

Austibeach is a PIO member who will soon be in a position to apply for a Contributory Parent visa. He saw all the material that I have provided the links to some time ago. Austibeach worked out how much additional revenue the CP scheme generates for the Government, both directly via the Contribution and indirectly via other taxes etc. If the AGA were forced to take account of Austibeach's arguments, the AGA's findings would definitely reach a less pessimistic conclusion, I reckon.

 

Which brings us back to the issue of "Lies, damned lies and statistics," I fear. It is amazing how the "design parameters" of the hypothesis can be made to support the political outcome desired, it seems to me! Austibeach constructed his own hypothesis using different design parameters and came up with a powerfully more rosy result!

 

I will invite Austibeach to comment on this post if he wishes. His own analysis produces fascinating results. (Indeed, I'd be inclined to nominate Austibeach rather than me for the hypothetical lunch with the Minister! Austibeach and Alan Collett, armed with their joint abacus, could probably do quite a bit to convince the new Minister that the true figures are nowhere near as dire as the ones that his predecessors may have instructed the AGA to produce!)

 

The Civil Service bears a deplorable similarity to the oldest profession in the world in my opinion. Anything can be brushed and groomed so as to produce the trompe d'oeuil required by the Paymaster of the moment, it seems to me.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Alan Collett]

I have had a brief look through the Australian Government Actuary publication (thanks for the link to that, Gill), and it seems that the report assumes a second Visa Application Charge of $25,000 per visa application, with an average number of persons per visa application of 1.77 (see 3.12).

 

Of course the second VAC is paid by each applicant ... I am minded to write to the AGA to ask for clarification of this point.

 

Point 5.9 is also very relevant.

 

Best regards.

[Alan Collett]

Letter sent by fax to the Australian Government Actuary querying a number of assumptions in the model. I shall report back.

 

I can also confirm I have written to the Minister regarding CP visas (as well as several other matters). I'm not holding my breath for a reply, but hopefully it will be read and considered ...

 

Best regards.

[Guest Scardycat]

Allan you're a star, good to know that someone is trying to help our cause.